Question about Tiredness/Soreness and Help With Workout

by hinduplaya on Jun 8, 2009 1:51 PM EDT Comment 12 comments

Hey, I've posted a few times on here and gotten some great advice but I was wondering if you guys can help me out again.

My first question relates to tiredness and soreness. I've read that a workout does not reach its full potential unless one feels sore at the end of it. Well, the problem for me is that I get tired very easily before it happens. I was wondering if that has to do more with my body type - I'm an 18 year old vegetatrion, so I'm obviously not that bug - or is it a problem with the amount of weight I'm using and how I should solve that problem??

Also, my sencond question realtes to my workout regimen. As of right now, I think my legs are pretty decent, so I'm concentrating more on upper-body. Currently, I'm using a machine similar to this.

http://www.comparestoreprices.co.uk/images/ma/marcy-multigym.jpg

What I've been doing is trying to concentrate on the main areas (biceps, triceps, chest and shoulders) by doing 4 main exercises on the machine. Bicep Curls, Tricep Pushdowns, Flat Bench Press, and Upright Row. I'm also planning on getting a pullup bar, so that should help out. I've been trying to do it as often as possible, but I'm not seeing major results. I was wodnering if there should be any otehr specific exercises to the routine?? And is there a certain amount of time I should work out for?? After my workout, I consume 2.5 scoops of EAS whey protein powder in milk so I think I am doing well in that aspect. Food wise, my ocusins a real strict nutritionist, so he's helping me out greatly there. I just need help finding the right workout to help me grow bigger because as a 18 year old vegetarian, let me just say its not easy putting on muscle (or weight for that matter). Thanks for all the help ahead of time ;)

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Training as a vegetarian

Is a tall order. It’s possible, I’m told, but animal proteins are about the best fuel out there, and your tiredness and lack of progress do suggest that you’re low on protein, especially if you’re 18! That’s prime gaining time for most guys.

Here’s a thumbnail sketch of what you should be doing:

I’d say jam on whatever protein you CAN eat (clearly you’re okay with milk products—how about eggs?). Pound protein with every meal. Support it with plenty of fruits and vegetables, and round things out with grains and other carbs (I’m assuming you’re pretty ectomorphic, so that’s allowable).

As to your workouts: focus on getting strong on pullups, pushups (add weight by placing plates on your back), deadlifts, squats, lunges, dips, overhead presses, rows, and all manner of plank variations. Forget bicep curls and pushdowns for now.

Do full-body workouts 3x/week based around these movements. Each workout should take less than an hour.

Do this for 6-8 weeks and come back and tell us how much progress you’ve made. Good luck—Andrew

by Andrew Heffernan on Jun 8, 2009 2:18 PM EDT reply actions 0 recs

Thanks

out of curiosity, how much protein do you think I should be getting per day?? Currently, I’m around 130 lbs….

my sig is better than yours

by hinduplaya on Jun 8, 2009 3:20 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs

If you're wanting to gain size then I would say you would want 1.5g per body weight...

so in your case anywhere from 200-210 grams per day…….

But if you’re wanting to just maintain then 125-150 grams a day should suffice……..

Godspeed Nick - RIP - 1986-2009

by norcaliangelsfan on Jun 9, 2009 2:40 AM EDT up reply actions 0 recs

You know, I sometimes think I’m the only one that feels this way, but I think mega-loading on protein is kind of ridiculous, at least for true beginners.

I know, I know, Berardi and the T-Nation crowd think I’m a little girl, but there’s something to be said for making slower, steadier progress. It’s a pain in the ass to get back 200g of protein every day without blowing your nutrient balance to hell — unless you’re doing with it low-carb protein shakes, and if you can digest that crap, well, more power to you. It makes me feel, and smell, like a zeppelin crashing into a hog farm.

Of course, the pat answer to that is, “Just put some LBs on and work them off later.” Yeah, again, I don’t know if I’m alone in this or what, but I think it sucks to get chubby. If I don’t look like I work out, my emphasis shifts to improving my appearance instead of getting stronger. Call me shallow, but I like it when my pants fit.

Rubber hits the road: I started lifting for hypertrophy seriously last December at 24 (working through the first half of Built for Show, then switching over to a Waterbury program this summer — sorry, Nate, but I’m sick of super-sets) weighing about 158 at 5-foot-9. I’m 171 now, and certainly a bit leaner than I was when I started. I don’t lift for max, so I have no idea how much my numbers have moved, though I can rip off a few sets of chins, pull-ups, and single-leg squats now, which I surely couldn’t do when I started, and I’ve put on half an inch to an inch in all the measurements that matter. So it’s not ticker-tape progress or whatever, and my diet still needs work, but I’m getting bigger without getting fatter, and I’m doing it just by being more careful with my carbs and working in more protein as best I can manage.

Sorry to spout off here; my own take on your question, h.p., is to try to get more protein than what you’re getting, see how it works, and adjust your nutrient intake according to your results. Getting bigger is fun, but not farting all day is fun, too.

by fleerdon on Jun 14, 2009 11:24 AM EDT up reply actions 0 recs

Great reply...

…and funny too. Thanks for the chuckle.

I’ve never had serious digestive issues with protein powders, but I know people who have. It’s creatine that gets me; it goes down like powdered glass and my body just does everything it can to get rid of it. But I don’t like the water retention either, so I’ll accept that I’m not able to crank out the reps quite as hard so that my quality of life outside the gym doesn’t suck.

Sometimes even the balanced among us lose sight of the fact that the gym should support and enhance life outside the gym.

by Andrew Heffernan on Jun 16, 2009 2:00 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs

Nice of you to say. It’s my own little axe to grind with the fitness in-crowd — well, that and supersets, of course, which work great if you’re Dave Tate and lift in a customized private fitness warehouse.

Seriously, though, about the protein: look at some guys who do hard time. They come out of the pen looking like pro wrestlers. You’re telling me they’re getting 200+ g of high-quality protein on the SoDexHo diet? I suspect they’re just training with high volume and eating a lot. I’m not saying that Berardi’s plan won’t get the job done — I’m sure it’s effective — just that a large number of guys seem to think of themselves as hard-gainers who need max protein, when the reality is they just haven’t been training smart enough, or hard enough, or long enough.

And I think that’s especially true for novices. Nobody asks you to do a 5/3/1 powerlifting routine your first week in the gym, so why should newbies eat like a guy doing that program? Why not just try to incorporate a new improvement into your diet every few weeks and track your results, just as you would with your training?

Again, I apologize for the rant, and norcal, I’m not trying to bust your balls or anything. It’s just … if I’m a half-assed sally because I’m not willing to drink a gallon of whole milk and flatulate tear-gas all day, so be it. It’s supposed to be hobby.

by fleerdon on Jun 17, 2009 7:39 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs

no harm no foul here.........

Im not smart enough to know what works best for everyone……….I can only speak from my own experience…………I agree though it is hard to consistantly hit those numbers and there are times where I find myself short when it comes to the numbers……

I agree with your assessment in which you stated just try to get MORE protien than you are used to period will probably help just the same…….

I’ve found that you have to try alot of different scenerios to see which one will work best for the outcome you’re trying to attain………..because in the end the only person that matters is yourself…..and what you’re willing to do to get there.

Godspeed Nick - RIP - 1986-2009

by norcaliangelsfan on Jun 17, 2009 7:44 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs

It's really not all that hard getting 200+ g protein daily,

I take in 300ish, and it’s not that hard. The number sounds like a lot, but if you eat 4-6 times per day and have a decent source of protein at the core of your meals, 200-300 grams is not that bad.

by dakoose on Jun 20, 2009 4:52 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs

Yeah, I’m sure there are people who can do it. But since I suck at digesting powdered protein, seems to me I’d have to be eating the better part of 4000 calories a day to do that. And look: I eat 4000 calories a day, I get fat. I work hard, but that’s just more food than I seem to be able to put to use.

Even more than that, though, I take issue with telling people who are brand new to weight training that they need to eat like hockey players to meet their goals. I realize Vince DelMonte’s not going to sell any pdf’s with a tagline like “do a few months of a good corrective program, clean out your diet, get some instruction on technique, learn your maintenance nutrition levels, and THEN maybe you can start pushing the limits with your diet and training!!!!” But half the advice on the internet I read for novice lifters is something akin to, “If you’re not eating your lungs out, you don’t want it bad enough.” That just can’t be true for everybody, and in any event I object to the idea that you’re better off eating dirty than missing your macro-nutrient goals.

Again, I’m not trying to contest you directly. I’m just advocating for some common sense here. If I can gain 15-ish pounds of muscle a year without ever getting flabby, and the alternative is to do 4000+ kcals a day for 8 months, gain 40 pounds, and then try to lose 15 of them … I’m taking door number one every time.

by fleerdon on Jun 22, 2009 10:55 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs

I’ve seen endo/big 18-year old vegetarians before… but it’s obvious that you’re ecto by your goals.

Tiredness happens—just alternate sets with a different movement so that the muscles that are tired get more rest.

Soreness is not really correlated with much in terms of gains. As far as I know, it’s only a reliable indicator that you’ve started exercising a muscle not recently exercised or changed how you exercise that muscle (which should ideally happen every 4-6 weeks when you switch up your routine)

Your legs always have room for improvement. Just because they aren’t impressive doesn’t mean you should omit them. They’re the biggest muscles that you’ll work, and so you should make sure they’re regularly worked so that they help you out hormonally.

by ectonoob on Jun 10, 2009 11:15 PM EDT reply actions 0 recs

For the soreness: Make sure you’re getting enough water; not sure why, but that always seems to help for me. And go check Eric Cressey’s “Maximum Strength” out of the library and do his soft tissue work and mobility warm-ups for a few weeks and see how you feel.

by fleerdon on Jun 14, 2009 11:01 AM EDT reply actions 0 recs

Some people just don't get sore.

I, for the most part, don’t get sore. The last time I was sore was after doing a 20 rep rest-pause squat, and that’s probably because my body isn’t used to that type of rep-work. If you’re not getting sore, don’t worry about it.
As to getting in ample protein while being a vegetarian, you can do it with shakes but it would be expensive. The caveat is that outside of immediately PWO, you shouldn’t use whey. Order a blended protein or a caseinate. Personally, I use milk protein isolate if I can’t get meals in and blend it with…. milk. Stays with you longer. Trueprotein.com’s products don’t give me the bloat that EAS and other mainstream products have in the past.

by dakoose on Jun 20, 2009 4:49 PM EDT reply actions 0 recs