German Volume Training For Fat Loss?
There's a discussion going on in a FanPost at right which I thought I'd respond to in today's post. Here's the original post:
I just tried this workout for the first time before I tell you how it went let me tell you a little bit about myself. I'm 46 I'm 6' tall and weigh 230-235. I've worked out off on for years never ever sticking with it...I've been working out 5 days a week and doing stuff like squats and deadlifts. So 5 months later I still weigh the same can't rid myself of this gut. I can see more muscle and i am stronger than I ever have been but that gut and my weight are still there, So I decided to try this 10 sets of 10, I have read you can add 10 pounds of muscle in 6 weeks. Well I don't really want to be heavier but I thought maybe I could eliminate this middle age spread around my waist. Let me tell you it was harder than I thought it would be....Should I continue on with the 10 sets of 10 or try something different?
There's an extended discussion that follows with some back-and-forthing about what the most effective exercise program is for fat loss, and a comment or two about how this site doesn't get much traffic.
On that topic, to paraphrase Spinal Tap, I just think my fan base is very selective.
The 10 x 10 system the poster is alluding to, also known as German Volume Training, is described at length here, and is allegedly very effective for packing on muscle. I say "allegedly" because I haven't tried it and haven't had any of my clients do it as it is indeed very hardcore and generally not in line with the goals of my clients.
I would further add that if you're going to spend a lot of time on such a program your recovery, nutrition, sleep, and general life-stress have got to be seriously in line, or you will self-destruct. As I said, I haven't tried it, but it doesn't take a PhD to see that these training parameters are pretty out there.
To the OP's question.
The notion that "more muscle = less fat" has some truth to it, as muscle tissue is indeed metabolically more active than fat and does indeed burn more calories. That would seem like an indication that building lots of muscle burns you lots of free calories. But the margin isn't significant: add ten pound of muscle to your frame and your RMR skyrockets up by just about 50 calories a day. That buys you about five M&M's, so enjoy them.
The point is that adding large amounts of extra muscle in MOST cases, WON'T automatically turn you into a lean, mean, fightin' machine. There are plenty of big, strong guys out there whose physiques are adequate illustrations of that fact. Here are two right now, in fact!
So if you want to lose fat, I would NOT advise going on an intense muscle-building program. Not only because their fat-loss value is questionable, but because you've got to eat everything that isn't nailed down in order for such a program (10 pounds of muscle in 6 weeks!) to work, which is not conducive to fat loss.
Knowing very little about the OP's history, but knowing he's a big guy, I'd wager he's on the endo-meso side of things, body-type-wise.
Instead of doing a lot of bulking-style workouts, I agree with the poster who suggested faster-paced, lighter weight training, of a circuit variety. That may be my bias, but it does work. It's also very different from what the OP has done to this point, and that alone may very well help to shake things up.
One caveat: MANY people go TOO easy on their weights and intensity in this kind of workout. Do it right and you'll practically pass out after one round--not that that's the goal but it does have a cardiovascular component as long as you keep your rest periods very short. They really shouldn't BE rest periods, per se--just the time it takes to walk briskly from one station to the next without running into anyone or anything, unless he/she is very attractive, has been leering suggestively at you all day, and has no apparent communicable diseases.
In addition-as someone else noted--I'd add some high-intensity interval training: sprints, fast bike intervals, stair climbing. You can throw these things in between circuit-training rounds.
The point is, get your body moving, and moving fast and for an extended period, doing a variety of high-intensity moves in the 10-12 RM range. Speed, and huffing and puffing, should be your goals, rather than moving big weights.
One final note: psychologically, it can be hard to leave behind a system or a habit, particularly one which has worked well for you in the past. The worry-which I'm all too familiar with-is that you'll backslide, lose all the gains you've made, and wind up with nothing to show for your efforts. So you think, well, I've got to keep lifting heavy AND do all this fast and crazy cardio-style stuff that everyone keeps suggesting.
I don't run around with a tape measure, but in my experience, you don't lose all that much muscle when you back off a little and re-orient your training towards fat loss. You may indeed lose some, but the improvement in your looks from the fat loss will be significant. Moreover, you'll probably find yourself much less sore and debilitated by a 3x/week full-body circuit with some HIIT thrown in than you were by the 10 X 10 system.
Good luck!
A
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Comments
Andrew thanks for chiming in.......
One thing I notice you didnt mention too much is about the diet though…..
I tried to make a point to the OP that his diet will be his success or failure with whatever he chooses to do…..
Like you said theres many ways to lose fat (my method of circuit training is what I like, with no rest periods) but all the training in the world doesnt do squat for me if I dont get my diet in line.
For me…..being a FB (fat boy) that means really high pro, low carb semi high (good) fat diet,. I shoot for 200g or so a day in P section……….
Of course calorie intake matters as well……but with a high enough P diet you wont lose much muscle and you’ll feel fuller.
Im just now learning the benefits of diet when it comes to training……..just in the last month I’ve dropped 11 lbs……(2 inches of flab around my belly button) and I dont do anything really hardcore for lifting or for energy systems work.
I make sure I walk atleast 2 miles (40 min) a day…..every day. And I drink no calories except from a shake.
To me…….just scratching the surface of the OP’s issue…….his diet needs some work.
The only cure for a bad today is tomorrow.
by norcaliangelsfan on Mar 15, 2010 5:22 PM EDT reply actions
Diet is a big issue here
I have a family of 6, myself my wife and 4 boys. A typical dinner is frozen fish, canned green beans and tater tots. So you can see I am at a disadvantage
by bucfanlostiniowa on Mar 15, 2010 8:17 PM EDT up reply actions
I know how you feel
I have 2 kids, and I work on average 70 hours a week. Seems like you already know what foods you normally eat that are unhealthy. It may be too much to revamp your entire diet. But I can speak from experience its not too hard too substitute a few of the main unhealthy foods you eat with a healthier alternative. Swapping a few popular foods in your diet for a healthier version is huge.
For example…
Our popular unhealthy foods we easily replaced:
Soda, Whole Milk, frozen dinners, snacks(chips, candy), white bread
Soda- that was easy, Diet Soda, Water, and or V8 fusion
Whole Milk- even easier, reduced fat milk
frozen dinners- canned tuna, and atleast a pound of lunch meat for sandwhiches
snacks- Pretzels, fruit, nuts
white bread- whole wheat bread
Frozen fish is good, as long as its not fish sticks. Fresh greens would be better but canned vegatables is still good compared to the alternative like tater tots.
This may be common sense, I dont know..but I talk to so many people that complain of not being able to lose weight even though they dont eat fast food and pizza every night any more. And then I realize they are eating things like fish sticks and boxed mac & cheese instead.
"When you argue correctly, you're never wrong."-Nick Naylor
Yup.
Great point. My focus was specifically on his training, since he’d asked about that, but indeed, his success will largely hinge on his diet. You’re right to point that out. Thanks for your input! A
by Andrew Heffernan on Mar 15, 2010 6:43 PM EDT reply actions
see thats odd because the I got that he wanted to lose weight as the main thesis.....
So 5 months later I still weigh the same can’t rid myself of this gut. I can see more muscle and i am stronger than I ever have been but that gut and my weight are still there, So I decided to try this 10 sets of 10, I have read you can add 10 pounds of muscle in 6 weeks. Well I don’t really want to be heavier but I thought maybe I could eliminate this middle age spread around my waist
Funny how two people can read the same thing, yet see differently. :-)
The only cure for a bad today is tomorrow.
by norcaliangelsfan on Mar 15, 2010 7:16 PM EDT up reply actions
I wouldn't mind staying at 230
as long as my waist doesn’t stay at 36"
by bucfanlostiniowa on Mar 15, 2010 8:10 PM EDT up reply actions
Weight loss
If I may add my two cents or more important one word for this gentleman… ‘’Crossfit’’. As a former 50 year old fat guy at 6’4’’ 290 lbs. now at 205 crossfit offers the best of all worlds… you’ll get bigger, stronger, faster while waving goodbye to the fat belly. If his gym does not offer Crossfit , their daily workouts are free for the taking on their website.
Good Luck
Mike
I have heard Cross Fit is VERY hard by my co-workers
And thats 20 somthing y/o Air Force fire fighters… So it must be pretty strenuous.
"When you argue correctly, you're never wrong."-Nick Naylor
CrossFit, et al
The principles behind CrossFit—increasing work capacity, working “on the clock”, going for strength-endurance, combining many different anaerobic-style exercise modalities—are also in operation in fast circuit-style training of the kind I recommend. So I think CrossFit might be a good option; I would, however, take those workouts with a grain of salt—some of their parameters are borderline foolish (high-rep Olympic lifts, to cite an obvious example).
Buc: no offense taken. I consider you and your fellow MPF’ers a highly elite group with exceptional taste.
by Andrew Heffernan on Mar 15, 2010 10:34 PM EDT reply actions
I am thinking about something somewhere in the middle
for example on squats instead of 4 sets of 6 with heavy weight, 4 sets of 10 with a lighter weight to try to shred some extra pounds.
by bucfanlostiniowa on Mar 16, 2010 8:44 AM EDT up reply actions
to the traffic point
I check MPF every day (sometime multiple times a day). But, as is often the case on fitness sites, many people post questions without having done any research on their own first. (not saying that’s the case here – I was in Costa Rica for three weeks and wasn’t checking in at all when all this went down). Rather than say something snarky, I say nothing at all, and let someone else who feels moved by the question to respond.
So, in general, to those who don’t get responses, you could try restating a question again, indicating your well-devloped thoughts on the subject (hint: avoid things like “I like cupcakes but want to lose weight, what should I do?”), or perhaps people just aren’t interested enough in the question, as you’ve presented it, to warrant a response.
My two cents. :)
by stuntmonkeys on Mar 16, 2010 6:25 PM EDT up reply actions
Strength
I agree about doing the strength training in support of weight loss, but it is not the main road to losing weight. I think many men think that fitness in general is the way to get there. Specifically building muscle mass needs to be part of weight loss.
I’m in the process of developing my own circuit routine right now. I’ve finally come to the conclusion that I’m not losing fat while lifting heavy (I used to be able to do this when I was younger). So I’m taking time off from the heavy lifting to lose 15-20 lbs and then I’ll re-assess. Part of my problem is the rotator cuff problem I’m still rehabbing, so many movements are out of the question (for now). I’m also not very experienced at cleans and things like that, so I’m trying to figure out some complexes that will work for me, maintaining good overall balance and that will work well in my gym setting. I’m hoping that with these circuits/complexes twice a week, krav maga twice a week and some treadmill HIIT once a week, I will make some real progress.
Only about two months to softball season!!

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